Well done pastor, that was so patriotic of you

[mahnmut]

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Freedom of hatred speech is SO patriotic! What does the life of several dozen of YOUR people who'll die in the process matter?

Comments

[pmax3.livejournal.com]

I am not talking about LA, I am talking about South Asia and Africa. Your (wise) choice of being diplomatic in reply to my answer should signal to you that you yourself realize that is not always good or "brave" to be a big mouth. If you a realize this on such a small stage, you should also realize this when the stage is global, and countless lives are at stake, including those of people of your country and of others who are politically disinterested or opposed to you.

By "us" I meant America. By "them" I meant those in the Islamic world who harbor ill-will towards America. The question has been posed by many in America after the 9-11 attacks, and not always with an intent to sincerely explore the reasons.

[pmax3.livejournal.com]

Well if you think "countless" lives are not at stake, and indeed are not being lost right now, then it says something about the value you place on human life.

And you are being entirely disingenuous in your "hey i am being offensive but i am not killing" line. Words have the power to kill, as you should know from the large number of peer-pressure induced suicides in your own society.

And who are you to tell me what is the prescription for my country, that too in such offensive terms? If you could engage your thought process just a little bit, you would realize that the people in the movie you cited already had a degree of goodwill between them and were willing to listen to each other. Goodwill that you do not want to build as per your statement in your comment in your Livejournal post because you consider yourself morally superior. And as for my comment, I did not say America should sacrifice free speech as such, but know that the consequences of exercise of free speech by individual Americans are felt across the globe, outside America, where people are not Americans, and therefore put the lives of other Americans in danger. In the light of this, it would be a wise choice to be responsible with the exercise of free speech, especially if America doesn't want to be a country where laws detail what the proper mode of expression should be. However, since you don't care much one way or the other about the deaths of people unrelated to you, I don't think there's much point discussing the minutiae of freedom of expression with you.

[pmax3.livejournal.com]

It says something about my ability to count.
No, it says something about the value you place on human life, whether the lives are American, Afghan, Pakistani, or Indian. You can't run away from that.

I don't get that comparison. Encouraging someone to kill themselves does not fall under freedom of speech.
Nice try again. I gave that example to illustrate the power of words, which you were disputing. Interesting to see that you are selectively willing to admit limits on freedom of speech, Mr. Inconsistent.

If you want to know, they actually had just met.
It doesn't matter. They were sharing the same cab, already had some sort of temporary relationship and trust between them, and came from the same background and took each others' words in good faith.

By the definition of morality one thing can, in fact, be more moral than another. And yes, I do happen to think that killing because someone burned your favorite book is morally inferior. *shrug*
That is not the code we are talking about. We were talking about having uninhibited freedom of speech - something you yourself are inconsistent about as demonstrated above.

Actually you did say that. Allow me to demonstrate...
Wow, very clever! Why did you not quote the entire sentence, including the allusion to warfare which you never responded to. Not to mention the entire explanation I gave above to which you you failed to respond to except meaninglessly exclaiming "We know this. We all know this" after separating it from what it was explaining.

I'll excuse this from further comment except to say
Oh no, you don't have to excuse anything. In fact I have demonstrated that you will always exercise your right to say whatever you feel like even if it puts the lives of your countrymen at risk. I don't think there's much of a response you can give, except saying that you joined the Army for your country and that makes you a certified patriot.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Well, technically he's not in the army any more, which now makes him a hired patriot. Technically.

[pmax3.livejournal.com]

Even in my own LJ post on the subject I said from the beginning that there are limits to freedom of speech

As a matter of fact you have done no such thing.

I'm thoroughly confused

You would not be if you had read my very first comment on your post carefully instead of going on arguing against things that I had not said and ignoring the ones I did, eventually leading to your accusing me of being a coward for not defending freedom of speech, and further trying to use my religion in order to rile me, and on being called on it making flippant remarks like "It would be like me making a Mexican joke. I'm a beaner, see? I don't care, lol" instead of showing the least bit of regret.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Danish guy =/= Dutch guy. LOL.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

"It doesn't just come from American, bud. It comes from many corners of the Western world. We know this."

Wait, so you do acknowledge that there is a problem with that?

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

You do acknowledge that indiscriminate use of free speech disregarding the consequences is a problem (which is not just an American problem, but everyone's)?

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

I think I've just learned a few new English words now. :-)

I can see you guys have some history behind yourselves. This is fascinating, but even more fascinating is the way you've (sortof) preserved civility. I should learn a thing or two from you.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Well, here at least. I didn't dare to read the continuation of your exchange on your thread. Don't wanna experience a head assplosion.

[pmax3.livejournal.com]

It's a strange predicament when talking to Panookah. He delights in following his "Fuck civility" maxim himself, presenting it as some sort of honesty or candour, but when the other person demonstrates the flaw in his reasoning and indeed shows that he is being deliberately provocative to escape being cornered, he says: "Oh I see you are feeling offended, tsk tsk, everything you say is null and void"

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Well, the "I'm not gonna go on on this topic any longer" sort of strategy is the most frequently used one, in my observation.

[pmax3.livejournal.com]

I'll remember that lesson in future, only in this case I wanted to explore every last possibility of having a sincere conversation with him, given that he had added me himself after our last argument on TP. I also had loads of free time and not being on the forum seemed better suited to having a good-faith conversation. On the flip side your inbox got flooded, which I am sorry about :P

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

"And the biggest danger to progress is shutting your eyes to that fact. Being polite wont get people out of poverty. The first step in recovery is admitting you have a problem."

I actually I agree with this.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Really? Why?

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Also I should watch this movie.