Well done pastor, that was so patriotic of you

[mahnmut]

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Freedom of hatred speech is SO patriotic! What does the life of several dozen of YOUR people who'll die in the process matter?

Comments

[pmax3.livejournal.com]

Well, after you call another country a "shit hole" I don't think it makes you look very smart to keep asking "Why do they hate us?" And that's where you are going wrong - it's not all about poverty, it's also about according people dignity.

[pmax3.livejournal.com]

What you are saying is applicable to large segments of populations in several countries of South Asia and Africa. Would you use that adjective for those countries? Especially knowing the nationalities of the person you are talking to and the person whose journal you are commenting in? And again, does thinking about this help you find the answer to "why do they hate us?"

[pmax3.livejournal.com]

I am not talking about LA, I am talking about South Asia and Africa. Your (wise) choice of being diplomatic in reply to my answer should signal to you that you yourself realize that is not always good or "brave" to be a big mouth. If you a realize this on such a small stage, you should also realize this when the stage is global, and countless lives are at stake, including those of people of your country and of others who are politically disinterested or opposed to you.

By "us" I meant America. By "them" I meant those in the Islamic world who harbor ill-will towards America. The question has been posed by many in America after the 9-11 attacks, and not always with an intent to sincerely explore the reasons.

[pmax3.livejournal.com]

Well if you think "countless" lives are not at stake, and indeed are not being lost right now, then it says something about the value you place on human life.

And you are being entirely disingenuous in your "hey i am being offensive but i am not killing" line. Words have the power to kill, as you should know from the large number of peer-pressure induced suicides in your own society.

And who are you to tell me what is the prescription for my country, that too in such offensive terms? If you could engage your thought process just a little bit, you would realize that the people in the movie you cited already had a degree of goodwill between them and were willing to listen to each other. Goodwill that you do not want to build as per your statement in your comment in your Livejournal post because you consider yourself morally superior. And as for my comment, I did not say America should sacrifice free speech as such, but know that the consequences of exercise of free speech by individual Americans are felt across the globe, outside America, where people are not Americans, and therefore put the lives of other Americans in danger. In the light of this, it would be a wise choice to be responsible with the exercise of free speech, especially if America doesn't want to be a country where laws detail what the proper mode of expression should be. However, since you don't care much one way or the other about the deaths of people unrelated to you, I don't think there's much point discussing the minutiae of freedom of expression with you.

[pmax3.livejournal.com]

It says something about my ability to count.
No, it says something about the value you place on human life, whether the lives are American, Afghan, Pakistani, or Indian. You can't run away from that.

I don't get that comparison. Encouraging someone to kill themselves does not fall under freedom of speech.
Nice try again. I gave that example to illustrate the power of words, which you were disputing. Interesting to see that you are selectively willing to admit limits on freedom of speech, Mr. Inconsistent.

If you want to know, they actually had just met.
It doesn't matter. They were sharing the same cab, already had some sort of temporary relationship and trust between them, and came from the same background and took each others' words in good faith.

By the definition of morality one thing can, in fact, be more moral than another. And yes, I do happen to think that killing because someone burned your favorite book is morally inferior. *shrug*
That is not the code we are talking about. We were talking about having uninhibited freedom of speech - something you yourself are inconsistent about as demonstrated above.

Actually you did say that. Allow me to demonstrate...
Wow, very clever! Why did you not quote the entire sentence, including the allusion to warfare which you never responded to. Not to mention the entire explanation I gave above to which you you failed to respond to except meaninglessly exclaiming "We know this. We all know this" after separating it from what it was explaining.

I'll excuse this from further comment except to say
Oh no, you don't have to excuse anything. In fact I have demonstrated that you will always exercise your right to say whatever you feel like even if it puts the lives of your countrymen at risk. I don't think there's much of a response you can give, except saying that you joined the Army for your country and that makes you a certified patriot.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Well, technically he's not in the army any more, which now makes him a hired patriot. Technically.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Danish guy =/= Dutch guy. LOL.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

"It doesn't just come from American, bud. It comes from many corners of the Western world. We know this."

Wait, so you do acknowledge that there is a problem with that?

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

I think I've just learned a few new English words now. :-)

I can see you guys have some history behind yourselves. This is fascinating, but even more fascinating is the way you've (sortof) preserved civility. I should learn a thing or two from you.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Well, here at least. I didn't dare to read the continuation of your exchange on your thread. Don't wanna experience a head assplosion.

[pmax3.livejournal.com]

It's a strange predicament when talking to Panookah. He delights in following his "Fuck civility" maxim himself, presenting it as some sort of honesty or candour, but when the other person demonstrates the flaw in his reasoning and indeed shows that he is being deliberately provocative to escape being cornered, he says: "Oh I see you are feeling offended, tsk tsk, everything you say is null and void"

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Well, the "I'm not gonna go on on this topic any longer" sort of strategy is the most frequently used one, in my observation.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

"And the biggest danger to progress is shutting your eyes to that fact. Being polite wont get people out of poverty. The first step in recovery is admitting you have a problem."

I actually I agree with this.

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Really? Why?

[mahnmut.livejournal.com]

Also I should watch this movie.

[underlankers.livejournal.com]

After 30 years of civil war and two superpower armies wrecking the place, I think the word "shit hole" is putting it a bit mildly where Afghanistan's concerned. I'd use "Real-life post-apocalyptic clusterfuck" myself.

[pmax3.livejournal.com]

The question here wasn't accuracy in assessment of the state of affairs of different countries, but the appropriateness of using certain descriptors. There's a difference.